Descendant’s Stuff co-producers Kelsey and Nicole discuss the little-known history of Spanish prisoners at Sachsenhausen, and share clips from a May 2025 interview with Spanish Ambassador to Germany, Pascual Navarro, conducted during the Sachsenhausen Memorial’s 80th Anniversary of Liberation commemoration. Special thanks to Ambassador to Germany, Pascual Navarro for taking the time for the interview, and Francisco G. Gómez for voice recording the English translation of Ambassador Navarro’s interview.
Links and sources for this episode:
- If you would like to see photos from the 80th anniversary events at the Klinkerwerk, click here to visit the webpage.
- Listen to episode 21 for the full interview, in Spanish, with Spanish Ambassador to Germany, Pascual Navarro.
- Transcript of the interview with Spanish Ambassador to Germany, Pascual Navarro.
- Transcript of the speech given by Spanish Ambassador to Germany, Pascual Navarro.
- The website of the ‘Amical of Mauthausen and other camps and of all the victims of Nazism in Spain’ with great resources, including the fantastic publication, “Spanish Republicans in Sachsenhausen” – downloadable in both the Spanish and German language.
- 2023 article by the Guardian on a newer exhibition at Mauthausen Memorial and camp with deep research and an exhibit telling the story of the roughly 7,500 Spanish prisoners and how they got there. If you are a descendant of a Spanish prisoner from Sachsenhausen, it’s worth a visit to Mauthausen to see the information and even contact those historians.
- 2022 El Pais article describing Spain’s Democratic Memory Law. Its allows those born outside of Spain with a parent or grandparent who lost Spanish nationality due to exile between 1936 and 1975 to apply for Spanish citizenship, even if their parents haven’t. Applications are made through Spanish consulates with proper documentation.
Full transcript of Ambassador Pascual Navarro’s interview translated from Spanish to English. Recorded at the Sachsenhausen Memorial’s Klinkererk site on May 5, 2025:
“Okay. Thank you very much. We’re at the ‘Klinkerwerk’, an outpost of Sachsenhausen. The Sachsenhausen administration has invited me as the Spanish ambassador to commemorate all the Spaniards who were in Sachsenhausen and who suffered National Socialist persecution there. It’s a little-known story because perhaps better known is the story of Franco’s regime. He was an ally of Hitler, but there were actually many Spaniards who, after the Second Republic fought against the Nazis in France, and from there they were deported to various concentration camps. They were persecuted and deported to various concentration camps in Germany, and very importantly, to Sachsenhausen. Among them were such notable figures as Francisco Largo Caballero, who was President of the Government of Spain [During the Second Republic, before Franco’s regime]. There were many Spaniards who suffered here, who collaborated with other prisoners here, who worked together, supported each other, and many of whom died, but some of them, after the liberation of the camps, were unable to return to Spain.
So, the memory of all of them is sad, but it must be remembered. Governments of recent times, the government of Spain, are preserving their memory, their descendants, like those I am addressing now, who are fully remembered by not only the government, but also by Spanish society, but also who can regain Spanish nationality—There is a law that allows it [The Democratic Memory Law that began in October 2022]. And it is a job not only to remember, but also to learn to ensure that these events never happen again. That a similar war never happens again in Europe. It is a reminder for them, for those of us here, and for those of us in Spain who have been pursuing a policy of historical memory, particularly the current government, with even greater intensity. We must remember the events, we must remember those who have suffered as a result of these events, those who have been persecuted, and above all, we must restore the dignity of those who suffered and of their descendants
Well—we need to recover some in Spain—as we still don’t know where they are. Some because we don’t know where they were buried, or where they were exiled ,or where they are in Europe or America. And it’s about remembering their lives. Let them be an example for everyone and offer them dignity through, as I said before, offering nationality to their descendants, which is what we’re working on now, that’s it.
It’s a process of restoring the dignity of all those people. Finally, I would say that Germany has its own process of remembrance, as in Spain, as well as in other European countries. I believe it’s a collective effort among everyone, and it’s good that there is one between Spain and Germany. There are issues, there are more situations that are the same. In other words, there were many Spaniards who were victims of National Socialism, right?
There’s a lot. So, I think it’s good for us all to reflect, and that’s something I’ve wanted to emphasize.”
Descendants Stuff podcast is produced by Jakob Feisthauer, Kelsey Snook and Nicole Wines – three descendants of Sachsenhausen prisoners and co-creators of the Sachsenhausen Stuff project.
The Descendants Stuff team would like to extend a special thank you to the team at Sachsenhausen Memorial and Museum especially Dr. Astrid Ley, and the members of the educational department’s project “What Voice Do We Have?”, as well as the descendant’s collective Voices of the Next Generation.
Our theme music, “Heil, Sachsenhausen!” was written and performed by former Sachsenhausen prisoner Aleksander Kulisiewicz. Thanks to the United States Holocaust Memorial and Museum and the Aleksander Kulisiewicz collection for granting permission for its use. If you are a Sachsenhausen descendant who would like to share your story, please contact us.